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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 10, 2007 17:36:27 GMT -5
yes cassie shadow (from the pictures) looks like she has verry good potential for jumping, and if/when you start training her for jumping and you go into competition that extra hight (big jump) will be good in competition especaily if you go into jumper were its speed and having a clear round is what your after. and your nore the horses position really matter as long as its fast and clear.
were as hunters there are grading you on your position and your horses position, and with the horses position also come to how much jump they have, meaning the horse knows how to judge the hight/width of a jump and not have to much extra hight over the jump.
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Post by [J u m p r g r l ♥] on Oct 10, 2007 17:54:22 GMT -5
you got it for the leg cassie. but with the crop I cary one just becuase baby is lazy and egnores my leg, but if she moves off your leg rather going forward or doing a leg yeld or what ever then you wont need one. but if she doesnt then you will need to cary one but if you do plan on using a crop or whip then I would start with a dressage whip first. when she doesnt listen to something with just a little bit of leg take the whip and gently tap it against your leg so that when it bounces back it will veary lightly touch her on the hip, if that doesnt work then tap your leg harder so it touches her harder, and the more that she doesnt do it the harder you flick the whip, unless she is standing there egnoring you then you can move it away from YOUR hip some and give a little tap. because all the tapping on your hip does is make it so it tickles here (basicly) once she does it give her 1 strock on the neck and do it again until she does it by your leg and not the whip. once she does it by the leg and not the whip Prase her really well. (or give her a little treat like a chunch of carrot.) this is what I have to do with baby but I had to start all the from the begining. like he would be standing there and I would squeez him with my legs and he wouldnt go so every time that he would move off the whip I would let him walk about 3 steps and stop him and keep doing thsi until he moved off my leg and once he did i would let him walk around and continuely strock his neck and then I would stop him about half way around the areana (or so) and I would continue to stock his neck for a few more seconds and then I would ask him again. and its the same prossess rather you working on troting, cantering, leg yeilding, or any thing that you do with your leg that the horse wont listen to your leg. but its a little bit differant if they dont no the movement. you use your leg and continue to get stronger with it until they give you an effort of the movement and then you praise them really well and go onto something fun for a bit and come back and ask 1 more time. Thats really good advice. You just have to make sure that when you hitting her with a crop isn't a signal for her to go faster. When you hit her with the crop, you're telling her that she was disobeying and ignoring your leg. Hitting her doesn't mean for her to go faster, just to smarten up! So say you're walkng and you want to get her to trot, so you squeeze her and she ignores you, then you hit her with the crop, and (only if she starts trotting) bring her back down to a walk, then try it over again. Squeeze with your legs and if she still doesn't listen hit her harder, but make sure you bring her back to a walk and try it again. Horses are very sensitive and if a fly lands on then, they twitch their muscle to get them off. So when she doesn't respond to your leg-she's choosing to be rude and ignore you because there is NO way that she didn't feel that. Hope this helped, sorry i'm a little late! haha
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 10, 2007 18:17:01 GMT -5
thats what I do with baby, plus naturly horses dont like to be hit with a whip so if you bring her back down and ask again she will learn that if she responds to your leg (and do the right movement) that she wont get smacked.
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Post by [J u m p r g r l ♥] on Oct 10, 2007 18:39:57 GMT -5
Exactly. If you train them the wrong way than everytime you smack them they burst into a gallop because they think that that is the aid to go faster.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 10, 2007 20:09:06 GMT -5
Shes already petrified of the reins. If I have the crop or rein in my hand theres nothing in the world I can do to calm her down adn make her go at an easy pace. In western the only reason you hit the horse with the reins is because they aren't going fast enough. If I'm kicking and shes bleeding and still not listening, I use the rein. And as soon as I touch the rein her head goes straight up in the air, her eyes get big and she gets very flighty.
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 11, 2007 18:53:19 GMT -5
ok Just wondering but why would you kick her so hard that she bleeds if shes not listening to your spure any way.
im just one of thoughs that dont belive in kicking or smacking a horse so hard you draw blood or raise welts.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 11, 2007 22:13:37 GMT -5
You're spinning and you want to go faster. You cluck, squeez, kick, it doesn't work so you kick harder. She diesn't seem to care, if she did she would speed up. She doesn't seem to mind bleeding. What am I supposed to do? Let her spin slow? That isn't the way to win. Most reiners bleed. Its just the nature of the discipline these days. I have no problem with it. Its her fault she has to be kicked. If she would go with lighter taps or squeezes then she wouldn't have to be kicked so hard. I personally dont believe in natural horsemanship like Parelli (sp). The way I've been taught, the horse does as its told and if it doesn't, its punished and forced to do it. Thats how the best reiners are all trained.
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 13, 2007 22:12:40 GMT -5
do you think that its possible that she physicly cant to any faster. I mean yes she possible is being a brat and not wanting to but if i were you i would take in all considerations before you go to that extreme of kicking her so hard she bleeds.
I mean maby its differant for your type of reining but around here if kick so hard that they bleed you are kicked out of the show and are never welcome back to the show. or if you are on a team your whole team is out of the show for not only the season but for the rest of your life. (no joke)
they take that really seriously around here and if you wear spures you have to go through a total inspection of saddle, cinch, pad, bit, bride, your spures, (making sure there not to long or to sharp), and in some cases (happend to me even though i would never kick a horse with spurs just touch her), the deligates will come out and watch you ride your horse with out spures to see how the horse minds and then with your spures and if they see a majore improvement in the horse minding then they will ask you to come over and they will check your horses sides to make sure that they cant see were you touched the horses sides with the spures, and usualy they are watching you through the hole show they have a few people that will be watching you the hole time except you dont know were they will be or who they are. and they are watching everybody there but especaily the people with the spures on and if they see you jam your horse with spurs 1 time you are DQ from the show for that day and if you come back and do it again (rather its the same horse or not) then you are kicked out for a year, then if you do it again you are kick out for good.
but they seen me with spurs on with reno (becuase she was really lazy and it took all my stringth to get her to go) and I had to go through the hole test with them watching me and every thing else. and I noticed a few people fallowing me around and the only reson why I know that there are people watching like that is because I have been one for quite a few years. even though when I am undercover I will still be competing they allow me to were spurs becuase a lot of people no me and that way they think im just competing but im really watching the riders.
and I have even had to turn in one of my old freinds ( that i use to hang out with and ride with a lot) becuase she was kicking her horse so hard in gaming that she was bleeding. but thats not the reasons why were not freinds any more. she moved off to college and was making some really stupid choises like getting in to the hard drugs and getting pregnate, and was doing some VERY inaproperate stuff on school grounds with a guy.
and around here im not affraid to turn someone in for treating there horse that way, I have done it at dressage shows (execpt we dont to that extreme) but its mainly at KBHA shows and stuff like rail classes and western events that they really watch people.
I just think its wrong to kick a horse that hard but what ever works for you then thats fine.
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 14, 2007 12:30:08 GMT -5
and even though the managers of KBHA and stuff know that I dont do rail classes much any more im still getting calls to see if I will come and help watch becuase I know how to read between the lines with people and there actions. but if I see them jam a horse and quite right back down and I dont see any thing else happen I wont say any thing but if i see them jam there horse over and over then I have ways of approching them so they dont suspect any thing and I have been able to hold my cover so the only people around here that know im undercover is my parents. (my grand parents dont even no that I am) and i have been able to hold my cover for over 4 years.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 14, 2007 17:27:30 GMT -5
She can physically go faster. I can kick adn kick and kick then as soon as the crop is in my hand she'll literally DOUBLE the speed.
You're disqualified form the show in all NRHA competition if you make your horse bleed in the show ring. Everyone is really careful in the show ring but in practice on the days before a lot of people will make their horses bleed. And if you accidentally make your horse bleed in the warmup ring its not really a big deal, you just rub dirt into it and it just looks like a bad grooming job.
It seems very rediculous that you have to be watched if you have spurs and will get DQ'ed for kicking.
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 14, 2007 21:46:40 GMT -5
honestly if I did that to ANY one of are horses out here they would loose trust in me SO fast and my butt would be ripped out of the saddle so quick I wouldnt no what happend to me. and then I would have spurs taken to my sides just like i did to the horse. and all of my freinds moms are like that. and if I go over and ride one of my freinds horses like that then they have the right to do it to me. (even though i would NEVER kick a horse that hard) or if someone kicks my horse like that then I have the right to do it to them.
like my freind melony she was frusterated with her horse for not listening and she took a whip to him (i was there) and started smacking him and her mom litterly pulled her off the horse and started beating her with the whip, then melony was sent to sit in the horses stall and her mom had me get on and work with wit (under her instruction) and she told me if I smack that horse like melony did then she wont hesitate to do the same to me. but I was able to get the horse to listen with a kick from my heal and he listened fairly well, but part of it is im bigger then mel and I have more stringth in my legs and it helps were my legs droped down around his sides more. but this all happend a few years ago when mels mom couldnt ride do to back problems.
and honestly I dont know who the other undercover people are (at least im never told) but I have my suspitions about most of them. since they dont really no how to be descreate about checking the horses and stuff.
like if im checking a horse I will go up and start making a conversation to some one and take a glance at the horses belly (thats only 1 of way I do it) but there are a bunch of way I go about checking the horse.
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Post by [J u m p r g r l ♥] on Oct 15, 2007 21:11:19 GMT -5
I have to agree with JJ, it's not right to be kicking with your spurs so hard that she's bleeding.
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Post by Cassie on Oct 15, 2007 21:18:56 GMT -5
The reason you likely both think its wrong is because thats not how you were taught. If you were taught to kick as hard as you can or get screamed at until you did you wouldn't feel the same. Its just how reining is. You dont see many reiners without spurs and almost all are harsh (most shows I see everyone wearing spurs, occasionally I see 1 or 2 people without them)
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Post by FreeStyle08 on Oct 17, 2007 12:30:14 GMT -5
spurs are Ok to wear but not to kick that hard. my moms trainer Marry Jean she is the #1 reiner in the nation and she gave mom Ruby the horse that took her to the top place more then 5 times. and Marry never was that rough with horses.
I was talking to mom the other night and she said if you wanted we could try to get intouch with her to see were she is and there is a good possibility that she is in canada.
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Post by [J u m p r g r l ♥] on Oct 17, 2007 18:12:24 GMT -5
Just because "everybody" else is rough, doesn't mean that you have to be though. It's not fair to the horse.
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